Stat rollers.

[maxum]

So last reboot, it took nearly two minutes to clear a stat roller from SDmud. Because they are not an existing character they do not clear in the usual manner.
This just highlights something I have been thinking about anyway.
SDmud is a combat based mud, stats matter. In some cases a lot.
To take stat rollers out of the game, you need to either write the code to defeat them or remove their efficency, or remove the need for high stat generation at level 1.

What would you do?

[unicus]

If I remember correctly.
It went... Shadowdale. So we had DnD numeric rolls. But stat rollers killed us.

So we went to more RPG text responses so people wouldnt spend all day trying to get 18s. That was better. Until people perfected rollers and handed them out like candy. Then we got killed by rollers.

So now every time there is a reason to recompile the actual game code (not just zones/rooms/monsters/equip stuff) then we compiled in new roller responses.

There was discussion (I can ask one of the gods with better memory than I) about going to a proper DnD roller as per the new books. I think it was along the line of the newer DnD style games. A roll then some assignable points? It might be in one of the in-progress SD4 copies. But Im not sure we could implement such a change.

[slash]

A roll with points added based on race/class? Or roll, distribute points, pick class/race?

[maxum]

Interesting, I was hoping some of the people running stat rollers would have an opinion, and Unicus you have not said what you would do, only from a Shadowdale perspective.

Going to a D&D based system is always a good goto answer, but it doesn't remove the fact that D&D is a role playing game, while mud code is a number comparison system.

At a time where rollers can be easily be more than half the mud connections, what would stop YOU from using a stat roller?

No I haven't said what I would do, yet.

[Aaron]

Well, I suppose the direction that we should take depends on whether or not you want to continue letting people use stat rollers. Yes, stats make a huge difference on this mud, especially now that the player base is at a point where leveling to 50 is pretty much a solo adventure.

So, if you don't want them; you can remove the rolling system all together, stats are randomly assigned behind the scenes and good luck to you...

If you do want them, then stream line the rolling system to make it less memory intensive (not sure what the code looks like). No reason for fancy strings, just post numbers and make them switch with no delay.

Or yes, you could allow a point based system, which would also eliminate stat rollers, but people are probably going to put stats in the same orders anyway based on class, so, not really a use for customization.

Just my two cents.

[maxum]

Removing the ability for stat rollers to function just means people will be creating and nuking characters instead. The better idea would be to remove the need/efficency of them.

Stat rolls should currently be something like:
3D6 (average 10.5) + racial bonus

I would prefer something like:
6 + 2D6 (average 13) + racial leaning + racial bonus
Racial leaning is a number pushing the stat up or down but not over racial max. ie Trolls tend to be stronger on average so +2str without going over max.

On level chance to increase class stat +1 to min 16, chance to increase other stat +1 to min 12.

Quest shop sells +1 stat potions, price based on race/class/ current stat, up to race max.

Method of generating quest points. Where casual players can still run a roller and play with slightly higher odds generated stats, but more experienced players can choose to go with faster generated stats, and work to increase them ingame.

Rollers would still work, but in some cases, it would be more efficent to get into the game and spend a few hours bumping up qp to buy preferred stats.

Thoughts?

[lennya]

On level chance to increase class stat +1 to min 16, chance to increase other stat +1 to min 12.

You mean max 16/12?

[marla]

Now if we can just figure out a way to get quest points given out so that we can get items from the quest shop that would be awesome. I really like the quest items.
Maybe when you get to 200mil exp you get a quest point?

[maxum]

Current quest system/ideals is based on higher population numbers.
As it is you need a level 57 or higher to run a quest, and the mortal numbers high enough to make running a quest worthwhile.
(Lower level immortals cannot reward quest points).

An automated system would be required to boost quest point throughput.

[lennya]

Trouble with an automated qp system is just that - it's automated and not very versatile. People will get loads of them, thus devaluating them, and any immortal-run quest, making the whole questing experience poorer.

You might consider creating a consumable that upon eating/quaffing rewards the imbiber with a qp. Make it !load/clone/rent, and have it spawn every.. [reboot? week? 14 days?] in a room only immortals (of any level?) have access to so they can pick it up and dole it out as a quest reward.
Prevents flooding, makes low level immortal-run quests possible and you could get any handling on this item (publicly 51+?) logged if you suspect foul play might result from this.

[marla]

I like the idea, and it seems fairly tough to abuse. The next question would be: How does one use the quest points? Have to create a useable shop or something. Does a god have to create a quest item from the shop and give it to the player, or can they actually just buy it in the room with the list?

[lennya]

I'd say the stat updrages you might be able to buy. Restrings and item fiddling probably still requires a god, unless you want to write a seriously code heavy shop that can determine what's allowed on which item. Besdies, it adds a little flavour when Gods are needed beyond the creation of quests.

[unicus]

Actually it has never required a certain level to do quests. We even had players do it. I remember a player (Macbeth?) doing them on a regular basis. Some quests did involve procs or coding. And some were extensive enough that high gods were asked to provide a prize that the person running the quest could give out. But there was no rule about it.

Sorry. Kindof an old well worn sore subject with me. I have often gotten emails from someone promising to do things for the mud. Advertise, bring back players, quests, fix problems, balancing, etc etc etc. All I had to do was give them high levels first. Sheesh. If you want to help then help.

[maxum]

Actually I should rephrase, you need a level 57+ to reward quest points.
I have no issue with running or creating lower level (53) runable quests, but my timezone generally clashes with other people.
I quite like Lennya's idea. Myself I would be leaning towards a more automated system, as even lower level immortals are uncommon it seems. I admit I have only recently turned up, and I am not even playing, just fixing stuff, so maybe they are out there.

[unicus]

An automated system sounds great. But its a bit of a stretch to call the adding of an automated quest system a "fix". The same with a completely different stat-rolling system.