maxum
Full Member
Posts: 106
|
Post by maxum on Oct 27, 2013 22:38:34 GMT -5
Well, it has been a year since I volunteered to do some fix ups for Shadowdale, this board will be a year old in a few days. For me there has certainly been both highs and lows.
I volunteered my time because, currently I have a lot of it to spare, and because in my youth Shadowdale actually meant a lot to me. Also, it still means a bit to some people I consider friends, even though we have never met. (True story, a person I met on Shadowdale flew halfway around the world to attend my wedding, meeting in person for the first and only time.)
In this time, a few things have become clear to me. Mainly that Shadowdale will not ever be in a position to have new zones added, or game balances/code changes. It has been in this state for some time, and it has been great to put in a few fixes for things that have broken over time. I am also aware that the server Shadowdale is hosted on may not be in the best of health, and probably wouldn't support a full time build/code site anyway.
I have mentioned before that I have had access to the code to do fixes, and also somewhere here I also said I have a full backup of it and playerfiles if the server went down permanently. I would like to state very clearly that in this time, NO ONE has ever asked me for the code, or asked me to split and host an alternate mud.
With that in mind, I am asking the question of you now. Would it be a good idea, or would it be beneficial for Shadowdale players, to host another alternate version, where updates and code changes could occur?
I could potentially write a novel on this topic, stating why I think it is a good idea, and a bad one. Why it should occur, and why it should never occur. Personally I don't think a split mud would survive more than a year, and it would do quite a bit of damage to the current, very small community.
I would only be involved in this if there was an amicable split, and a large portion of the community was in support of it, so, post thought please. Write lots. Let me hear what you think?
|
|
|
Post by lestat on Oct 28, 2013 13:38:48 GMT -5
On the positive side: I think it's a great idea to create a mud where change is possible, where it is the same world we know and love but has a dynamic element to it.
I'd be concerned about the fracturing of the small community. Could the new version be created and then that become the official mud?
|
|
|
Post by Abbathor on Oct 28, 2013 23:53:34 GMT -5
I'm all for it. I and several other have expressed a want for new zones and more equipment variety. I think overall it would work better if this was an official change so we wouldn't lose any playerbase.
|
|
|
Post by sexton on Oct 29, 2013 8:13:39 GMT -5
Personally, I have invested far too many years helping as a mortal just to see it fade away. For whatever reasons, I think this could be the last hurrah if people don't figure out a way to keep the game "play-able"/returnable. Right now, so many people have come back and left in the past 5 years that numbers are down to a handful, though very DEVOTED few. I realize we have a 20 year old game that was built and supplied by countless people, and I also realize that the continuation of it will be done by many people also. After the second 10 years of SD, it can be said that immortal stimulus is needed at times, as we can see how the last few years has been lacking, and upkeep of the community member retention placed upon one or one mortal.
Fracturing the community would happen if people see HAVOK in the future. ..(good game.. EZ mode after a while).
I am in it to help and play, but after 10 years of few arenas, no quest points, nothing to retain old players. the fact that we see a 20year old mud/abandonware that cant be modified, nor released, nor bought, nor FUNDED ...
People dont come back to see nothing, people come back to see people running around the mud.. scurrying around.
They did do version sd4.0 but it was still beta beta, just too early of a release.
Make a handful of new zones? build? run arenas? Awesome!
I dont forsee anything official ever being done. I see a person who is not in charge carrying something he doesn't want, nor doesn't want to invest much time in.
How does a 20year old game go forward? thats the questions? do we run it into the ground with improvements.. utterly killing it? do we do nothing, and add no immorts/quests/activities...dooming a slow death do we follow rules of checking/building/balancing? (ps ..balancing.. how has every pfe paladin only sword made it into the game.. really....pallys get pfe) tough questions. ..
We need to point some direction because this CIRCLE crap is boring and I can play it til the server dries up and spits out its last electronic fart.
|
|
|
Post by lestat on Oct 29, 2013 12:56:36 GMT -5
Then lets go for it. If you take a current version of SD, and don't change any of the old stuff - but simply allow for new zones to be created I think it could be alot of fun. It's not like there is a ton of downside at this point. The only way we could really screw that up is if we allowed game-breaking bugs or items into the game.
For new zones, you would need to have people to be mob checkers, item checkers, etc. I'd volunteer to have a role there.
|
|
maxum
Full Member
Posts: 106
|
Post by maxum on Oct 29, 2013 22:05:57 GMT -5
There are a few options available, but most likely would be that the original Shadowdale would stay in place as an archive version at it's current location. One of the draw points of the current Shadowdale is that it is still there and unchanged after all these years. The second version would be hosted at a free mud host like theMUDhost.net or similar and run from there. Donations could be used to purchase a domain name (maybe sdmud.net) and maybe move to a paid host service with a webpage and ability to run a forum as well. There would be clear links to the original Shadowdale advising that this was a modified version and where the original can still be located. SD2 (or whatever) would be spearheaded by me. I would become a power loving tyrant and rule over you all with an iron fist. New immortals would be promoted based on a complex system of whim, bribery and chocolate. There would be code updates, but carefully and fully discussed to retain as much of the original feel as possible. There would be new zones, the ability to build new zones, and events. In the event of the site dying and no one playing, I would close it down, archive the code and send it to the current host of original to file with the other failed SD breakaways. I would not be releasing the code publicly, I had to jump through hoops to get a somewhat tenuous permission to host, and while I don't see the issue with over 20 year old code, I respect that others do.
In a perfect world, I would like to see one community owned server operating three versions of Shadowdale; Original, Modified, and Build. As things stand today, this is extremely unlikely to occur.
Currently, I could host a version from my home IP right now for a test server, but I don't like leaving that machine running for ever, the fan in it is a tad noisy. There would be the potential for lag, as I tend to live a long way from you people, but it would be network based, not server based.
|
|
|
Post by lestat on Oct 30, 2013 11:01:06 GMT -5
I'll help - probably including donation. Keep me updated.
|
|
anton
New Member
Posts: 3
|
Post by anton on Nov 1, 2013 2:31:07 GMT -5
I love it-- archive the Classic version and breathe some new life into it.
I agree that it's worth the time/energy put into itemization, and intent put into new items... I'd love to see/build/re-tune some lower level zones, too.
I appreciate all the energy very few people have put into keeping it alive all these years, and maybe new content will attract more support...
|
|
unicus
Junior Member
Posts: 62
|
Post by unicus on Nov 1, 2013 8:56:42 GMT -5
Interesting conversation.
Couple of notes though....
These have happened. The only thing that hasnt moved forward is adding new zones in since we lack the balance of checkers looking at them.
And for moving the mud forward I would also add webpages and advertising. (webpages have been updated and rewarded, advertising not so much)
|
|
|
Post by sp000n on Nov 1, 2013 13:50:15 GMT -5
The Imps devotion to play balance has always made SD2 one of the most challenging and therefore interesting MUDs to play. Certain elements, however, make it difficult to stay for long or introduce to others:
- stagnant builds: There are more rooms on SD2 than I will ever get to explore. However, there must be new zones and development so that there's something for us returning/newcomer/casual players to be first at rather than locked up on someone else's toon. - rent: a game can't be a job; eliminate the maintenance requirement - item caps: we don't have the player base where these caps make sense anymore (if they ever did). Improving your equipment is the #1 reason to explore and play. If all the gear is locked up with someone else, however, the incentive is gone, the game gets old and we leave again.
These would help me return to SD as a daily player rather than pop in every few years, start a toon, relish the play for awhile, but eventually leave again for frustration and lack of growth.
|
|
|
Post by lestat on Nov 1, 2013 14:07:27 GMT -5
Interesting conversation. These have happened. The only thing that hasnt moved forward is adding new zones in since we lack the balance of checkers looking at them. I volunteer to become a dedicated checker if that will help.
|
|
|
Post by sexton on Nov 1, 2013 19:42:08 GMT -5
Make a handful of new zones? build? run arenas? Awesome! How does a 20year old game go forward? thats the questions? do we run it into the ground with improvements.. utterly killing it? do we do nothing, and add no immorts/quests/activities...dooming a slow death do we follow rules of checking/building/balancing? (ps ..balancing.. how has every pfe paladin only sword made it into the game.. really....pallys get pfe) tough questions. .. . These were examples of options for the future. All three are possible. Yes, we did have 1 or two new immorts in the past year, but as it is looking, unless another higher god comes on and wants to sponsor someone, i see a low low low percentage chance of there being new immorts/activities. All of those activities were through the kindness of Maxum/lennya/others over the last year. I dont think they would continue at this point.
|
|
unicus
Junior Member
Posts: 62
|
Post by unicus on Nov 2, 2013 10:38:21 GMT -5
The "devotion to balance" was an accidental side-effect to the way SD did immortals. Anyone could immort and rise thru the ranks even if no one liked them as long as they didnt violate rules. Many muds are run by someone who is one of the 4 player types. They tend to immort people they do not disagree with. And often it was someone who just showed up and spoke a good pitch about what they could do if given the chance.
On SD anyone could immort. They only had to actually play 50 levels (something which was hard to maintain). They got a few commands, just enough to hang themselves. If they got thru a couple weeks of that then they could design a zone. More work put into the mud got them more levels.
Part of the advantage was that we ended up with everyone. People who fixed things by adding stuff, and people who fixed things by subtracting stuff. People who were known for getting people into the mud, and people who were known for getting people out of it. We had party/games people, and we had arena people. Balance (and lots of fights upstairs, but also balance).
By the time someone became a high god they understood the big picture. They couldnt just pop something in because they thought it was a good idea. Multiple personalities passed on it first. And changes in the way the mud did things (on code level) were extensively tested first (often on Havoc)
|
|
maxum
Full Member
Posts: 106
|
Post by maxum on Nov 2, 2013 19:02:06 GMT -5
That's not quite right. Havok came into existence during an extended absence of Shadowdale (after the release of SD4). When Shadowdale 3 code was reinstated, it was code locked from this time forward. The last compiled changes from Uma are dated 2000,with a final compile in 2002, while all files from Havok are 2004 and later.
|
|
|
Post by horath on Nov 4, 2013 10:02:51 GMT -5
Hi
Just found this thread.
I think the idea of having a form of Shadowdale that has the capacity to evolve is a great one.
I came back to the mud about 2 years ago after an extended break (extended mainly because I didnt know the mud still existed!). Having first come to the Mud about 13+ years ago it was a joy to be back and I had a wonderful time re exploring and getting reacquainted with old friends and enemies.
For the last year I have been a much more infrequent visitor. The thing that turned me off to the greatest extent was the lack of even the possibility of any evolution at all.
If this is on the cards I am all for it.
While I can understand the possibility of fracturing the current dedicated small community of people ... if nothing is done then it will all just sadly fade away.
I would be more than happy to offer some of my time in whatever way I can help. I am unfortunately only an infrequent programmer so dont think I can offer substantially in that vein. I would love to help with possible new zones, I know for a fact there are a whole bunch already written (I would love the opportunity to see the zone I spent 2 months building (the Harbour District of Waterdeep) 10 or so year ago have the chance to enter the game) I know those zones were optimized for the never to appear SD4 but with some work cant see why they cant be SD3'd
I will keep an eye on these boards with baited breath in the hope this idea moves to go live.
|
|